Ready for the cold weather? We've scoured the down jacket market, analyzing over 70 models before purchasing the best 11 of 2019. We put them each through our vigorous testing process, evaluating them based on our metrics, which include warmth, weight, and water resistance. We then came up with a definitive selection highlighting the lightest, warmest, and most weather resistant models. We're confident that our review offers a wide selection no matter your preference or budget.
The Best Down Jackets of 2019
|Price||$349.99 at Amazon|
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|$339.00 at Feathered Friends||$278.73 at REI|
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|$279.95 at Backcountry|
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|Pros||Great fit, warm, lightweight, packable, hydrophobic down||900+ fill down, warm, lightweight, incredibly compressible, competitively priced||Lightweight, stylish, high warmth to weight ratio||Water resistant hydrophobic down, great DWR coating, well thought-out features||Very warm, super light, packs small, fits fantastic|
|Cons||Expensive||Hood a little tight to fit over a helmet, no hood adjustment||Expensive, not super durable||750 fill-power down is good but not as light or lofty as others||Expensive, draw cord performance not as great as other jackets|
|Bottom Line||This is our absolute favorite jacket for going fast and light when we need to be toasty at camp.||A great choice for folks looking to go fast, light, and warm.||An incredibly light jacket for your trips where weight matters.||Excellent for wet weather because it has all the features to ensure the down stays dry.||A great warmth to weight ratio and excellent features make the Cerium a solid choice.|
|Rating Categories||Summit L3 Hoody||Feathered Friends Eos||Arc'teryx Cerium SL Hoody||Rab Microlight Alpine||Arc'teryx Cerium LT Hoody|
|Water Resistance (15%)|
|Specs||Summit L3 Hoody||Feathered Friends...||Arc'teryx Cerium...||Rab Microlight...||Arc'teryx Cerium...|
|Down Fill||800-fill goose down||900+ goose down||850-fill goose down||750-fill goose down||850-fill|
|Total Weight||13.8 oz||13 oz||8.4 oz||15.7 oz||12 oz|
|Baffle Construction||Sewn-through baffles||Sewn-through baffles||Sewn-through||Sewn-through baffles||Sewn-through baffles|
|Main Fabric||Pertex Quantum GL (10D x 10D nylon ripstop), DWR coating||Pertex Quantum||Arato 7 nylon||Pertex Quantum||Arato 10 nylon|
|Compression Method||Zips into its own pocket with clip-in loop||Stuff sack||Included stuff sack||Stuff sack||Zips into its own pocket with clip-in loop|
|Pockets||2 zippered hand||2 zippered hand||2 zippered hand||2 zippered hand, 1 zippered chest||2 zippered hand|
Best Overall Model
The North Face Summit L3 Hoody
The North Face hits one out of the park with the The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody, taking home our Editors' Choice Award. This jacket weighs a delightfully light 11.9 ounces and provides a long hem (keeping our bums warm) and a generously puffy hood. The 10 denier shell fabric feels incredibly thin, but it holds up surprisingly well against rough granite and brush, and it's coated with a DWR treatment to buy you some time to find shelter if it starts raining. If you find yourself getting too hot, it stuffs into one of its pockets, complete with a clip-in loop.
This jacket is stuffed full of 800 fill power responsibly sourced down. Good stuff, but not as nice as the 950+ fill down in the Feathered Friends Eos or the 850 fill in the Arc'teryx Cerium. Fortunately, during real-world testing, our testers agree that the Summit L3 is their favorite balance of fit, warmth, and packability. Not a lot here to complain about!
Read review: The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody
Best on a Tight Budget
REI Co-op 650 Down
The REI Co-op 650 Down is another example of REI offering a good quality product at a reasonable price. It retails for an incredible value and is lightweight, yet basic. The 650 Down is an excellent option for those on a budget. It has a water-repelling DWR treatment and managed to keep all of its feathers during testing (which can't be said about the entire lot).
The 650 is on the thin side, and not the warmest option whatsoever. We preferred instead to use it as part of a layering system on cold days. It works well in a layering system because there is no hood, but then, there is no hood. This limits the versatility depending on the types of adventures you wish to bring it on. If you are looking for a reasonably priced warmth layer, but don't need the most technically advanced model for a climb up the Matterhorn in winter, this is a good option for around town or warmer light and fast adventures.
Read review: REI Co-op 650 Down
Best Bang for Your Buck
The North Face Sierra Peak Hoody
The North Face Sierra Peak Hoody is a great middle-ground option for those looking for a hooded down jacket that is warmer than "ultralight" style jackets but can't justify spending the money on something like our Editors' Choice. This hits the middle ground. The Sierra Peak has most of the features of a higher-end jacket and almost the same warmth, making it a great choice for those on a budget who still want to get a high quality, warm, down jacket with a hood.
However nice this jacket is, The Sierra Peak isn't quite the perfect down jacket. The North Face website mentions that this coat has a hem adjustment, but we were unable to locate it. When it was super windy or cold, it would have been nice to lock that cold air out better, without having to put on a wind shell that had a hem cinch. We also would have preferred if the hood had a slightly different design. While it cinched up really well and sealed out the cold, the elastic cord wraps right over the ears, making it uncomfortable to wear cinched up for long periods of time.
Read review: The North Face Sierra Peak Hoody
Top Pick for Lightweight Warmth
Arc'teryx Cerium SL Hoody
The Arc'teryx Cerium SL is an ultra-light down jacket that has all the necessary features to make it a technically capable jacket; it doesn't include the erroneous bells and whistles that would add weight, bulk, and complexity. We loved the super light weight and compressibility that you get with this jacket. When it's clipped to the back of your harness or in your pack, you forget its there until the sun goes behind the wall. The classic Arc'teryx style and quality make this a stylish option for when you go out to have a meal with friends after a day in the mountains. The hood and hem both have adjustable drawcords to lock out the cold wind, which is more than we can say about some other, more heavily-featured options in our roundup.
While the Cerium SL is just about the perfect ultra-light down layer, there are a couple of things you should be aware of. The thin ripstop nylon shell is indeed tear-resistant, but that's a relative term, and when compared to the heavier-weight fabrics used in many of the other options, this just frankly won't hold up as well. We also know from experience that even with careful use, the thin zipper used on this jacket can wear out before the jacket itself.
Read review: Arc'teryx Cerium SL Hoody
Top Pick for Weather Resistance
Rab Microlight Alpine
The Rab Microlight Alpine earns a Top Pick Award for being an amazing jacket for wet weather. Previously earning our Best Buy, this is more than just a good deal, and it might just be the perfect puffy for you, depending on where you like to adventure. We all know that wet weather is the Achilles heel of down insulation, but many companies have made a concerted push in the past few years to develop down with hydrophobic properties, thereby preventing it from losing its heat-trapping loft when wet. On top of hydrophobic down developed by Nikwax, the Rab Microlight Alpine down jacket also uses super tightly woven Pertex microlight nylon fabric that is naturally water-resistant and a superior external DWR coating to keep water from soaking in from the outside, providing the best overall defense against water available in a down jacket today.
Rab used slightly less lofty 750-fill down in the Microlight, but it was still one of the warmer jackets in our test group because they added a few extra ounces of down to make up the difference in fill-power. That extra down does make it slightly heavier, and it won't pack down as small as it could have otherwise. The weather resistance is impressive, though, and the Rab Microlight Alpine can handle some rain without ending up soggy and useless. We don't suggest that you ditch your rain shell altogether, but if you're the type of person who often forgets a rain shell on day missions, this layer might save your hide once or twice. Don't miss out on this high performer that will keep you warm for a lower price than our Editors' Choice.
Read review: Rab Microlight Alpine
Best for Town Use
Patagonia Down Sweater Hoody
It's hard to pass by our award designations without giving a nod to the Patagonia Down Sweater. This classic model hasn't changed much over the years and is still the best looking option on the market. We didn't score for style, but after a day in the mountains in the more technical-looking options in this review, we always grabbed the Down Sweater when heading out on the town. We're sure some people buy this hoody and never head out of the confines of a city with it, but we can assure you that it still performs well in the mountains too. It has great wind resistance, helping us stay warmer on blustery days. We also liked the fit, which was roomy in the shoulders but trim down the sides.
The DWR coating keeps water out of the down for a time, but Patagonia does not treat the fill, so its wet weather performance is not fantastic overall. It's a little heavy for the warmth it provides, but we loved the features that it has, including an internal chest pocket and a stash pocket, and a high collar that comes up over your nose when fully zipped. Other options are lighter or less expensive, but if you're looking for something that is also "outdoor chic", the Patagonia Down Sweater is hard to beat.
Read review: Patagonia Down Sweater Hoody
Why You Should Trust Us
Our panel of expert gear testers is headed up by Adam Paashaus. Adam has been an active member of the outdoor community for years. His passion for helping others find the right gear for their adventures started back in 2001 when he started working in the retail side of the industry. Later, Adam worked for a national outdoor school as their lead climbing instructor, where he found a passion for hands-on instruction. Now Adam travels full time in a retired converted school bus (skoolie) with his wife and two daughters (ages 6 and 9), and most recently finished a 5-week end-to-end thru-hike of the incredibly arduous Vermont Long Trail, and yes with the kids in-tow.
The bulk of our testing takes place in the High Sierra of California, the Rockies of Colorado, with some adventures in the Pacific Northwest and the Green Mountains of Vermont thrown in for good measure. After many hours of research, we selected the top models available and took them into the field, where we climbed, hiked, skied, camped, and even slept in the jackets, all the while paying special attention to the fit and performance of each one. Additionally, we performed objective testing, like wearing each model under a showerhead, and noting where the jacket may leak, or how long they take to dry.
Related: How We Tested Down Jackets
Analysis and Test Results
In this review, we tested a specific range of down jackets - lightweight models that can be used as a midlayer. No super-heavy down parkas for high peaks or expeditions in the Arctic circle here; instead, these jackets tend to be extremely lightweight, packable, much more affordable, and geared towards fair weather backcountry adventurers. The list of applications for these down jackets is endless; they work great for everything from backpacking, camping, and ski-touring, to staying warm around town when the mercury drops.
Related: Buying Advice for Down Jackets
Related: The Best Hardshell Jackets of 2019
To be able to give you the best possible advice on buying a down jacket, we chose to rate each contender on a scale of 1-10 for six separate metrics: warmth, weight, water resistance, fit, compressibility, and features. We weighted each of these six metrics based on how important we felt they were to the overall performance of the down jacket. The Warmth metric is worth 30% of the total. Weight is worth 20%, while WaRer resistance and Fit account for 15% each. Compressibility and features are 10% each. We then took the results and added them up to give the total scores.
All of these models feature down insulation, which has long been known to provide the best warmth-to-weight ratio of any insulation type. One caveat is that down will lose their warmth-trapping loft when they get saturated. While some of these jackets now use some form of hydrophobically treated down coupled with external DWR applications to add water resistance, people who are concerned about their jacket getting wet or sweating excessively into them should check out synthetic insulated jackets as well, which don't absorb water.
One other thing to note, all down is naturally somewhat hydrophobic, and won't absorb moisture like a sponge immediately, but if it starts to rain, its time to dig out that outer shell or make your way to shelter. We recommend pairing a down mid-layer with a hardshell jacket, which makes for a formidable defense against wet fall and winter weather. When they are available, we choose to test the hooded versions of all these jackets, because a hood adds both warmth and versatility. Not everyone likes a hood, though; if you are specifically looking for something to layer with, too many hoods in your layering system can get in the way, so we also point out which jackets also come in hoodless versions.
Most of our testing and scoring took place during adventures in the field, but in some cases, we also devised specialized tests to help us better understand how each jacket scored for a given metric. Below, we break down the ins and outs of each of the six scoring metrics, including the crucial factors, how we tested for it, again, what percentage it counts in the final score, and what jackets we found to be the best for that particular metric. In all cases, ratings were given compared to the competition. For that reason, just because a product scored poorly does not mean it is not worth owning or using, as all of these jackets are among the best available on the market today. We've highlighted jackets that perform exceptionally well in particular metrics to help you find the jacket that bests suits your needs and concerns; if you're an ultralight backpacker using this on an Appalachian Trail thru-hike or you're a fair-weather alpinist in California, you'll be able to select the best option for you.
While not reflected in our overall scoring, value is still an important consideration for our testers. High quality often requires a high price tag. Our Editors' Choice Award winner (The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody) is expensive along with other top models like the Feathered Friends Eos and the Arc'teryx Cerium. Granted, these jackets use the best down, are often responsibly sourced, and are comprised of the lightest materials available. Not only that, but they are also many times backed by some of the best warranties in the industry.
However, we all love a bargain, and we take care to point out which models are a steal, despite their flaws, so you'll know what to grab if you see it on sale. Though not a high scorer, the REI Co-op Down 650 hits an excellent price point and is lightweight. The The North Face Sierra Peak was a favorite budget option that performed better than the REI Co-op 650. It isn't the warmest jacket in the selection, but it's lightweight and has some rad features that make it a good option if you don't want to part with too much of your hard-earned cash. The Rab Microlight is also a great deal for a jacket that provides superb weather resistance.
Warmth is the most important criteria when selecting a jacket, because, after all, if not for its warmth, why do we even need one? Since it's so important, we decided to weight each jacket's score for warmth as 30 percent of its total score.
Lightweight down jackets are typically made using sewn-through baffle construction that helps produce a lighter weight and less expensive product. The baffles are the individual compartments that hold down and are needed so that it doesn't all sink to the bottom. Sewn-through construction means that the fabric on the outside of the jacket is sewn to the material on the inside, creating a baffle, which is typically oriented horizontally, although some are square-shaped. This design makes them lighter, thinner, and less expensive.
On the downside, sewn-through baffles create thin places near the seams where there is no down, and trapped heat can escape. There are a few different alternative techniques for generating baffles besides the sewn-through method, but the only other one used by jackets in our review is the welded or bonded baffle construction. These two names describe a similar technique where the outer and inner fabrics of a model are "bonded" together using chemicals or glue, free from any stitching.
Warmth is most affected by the fill power and fill weight. Fill power relates to the down's ability to puff up and insulate a space. High fill power down (800 and up) needs less down to insulate the same amount of space as down with a lower fill power, so the top-performing and often most expensive jackets use higher fill down for warmer and lighter results. Less expensive jackets using a lower fill power sacrifice weight and compressibility, but can still provide a warmth-to-weight ratio that outperforms most synthetically insulated jackets.
Loft isn't everything, and fit and design have loads to do with how well a jacket stacks up in the warmth metric. Jackets with a slim, thermally efficient fit and a longer hemline also picked up extra points in the warmth category. To test these jackets for warmth, we used them each countless times on adventures during the late fall and early winter: camping, hiking, climbing, and other exploring in the mountains, not to mention around town use. We even got to see their lower limits on some particularly cold ski touring days, when it would've been nice to have a parka on the summit.
We also tested them side-by-side on frigid, windy mornings in the mountains to best tell how they compare against each other. Although they do not come with temperature ratings like sleeping bags, we feel these jackets offer good-to-adequate stand-alone warmth down to freezing temperatures and can help you stay warm in much lower temperatures when used as part of a layering system.
In the past few years, most companies have begun using responsibly sourced down. Since down is an animal product — duck and goose feathers — it's our belief that it's important that down is harvested for use in your jacket in a way that does not unduly torture the animal. There's no getting around it; these birds are killed as food and for their feathers. Down from the eider duck can be harvested from their abandoned nests, but these feathers can't compete with the lofting powers of goose down.
In our testing, a few jackets stood out for their warmth. The Feathered Friends Eos is packed with 900+ fill-power down, giving it the best warmth to weight ratio of the bunch. The Arc'teryx Cerium SL Hoody employs 850-fill down, minimal features, and lightweight shell fabric to create a toasty jacket that packs away super-small. Likewise, the Rab Microlight Alpine provided top of the line warmth, in no small part, because it did an excellent job of sealing off all the openings to keep the heat in and the cold out. The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody provided the most coverage, causing it to feel equally as warm as some competitors with higher fill power down.
The higher, further, and steeper we take ourselves, the more important the weight of what we haul around becomes. The utility of an object comes in measuring how much use you get out of it for how much energy is expended carrying it. The warmth-to-weight ratio of a jacket is a key measure of value, and a down jacket has the highest warmth-to-weight ratio of any technical insulated jacket. Additional ounces are added or subtracted to a jacket's weight by the fabric and design features. Frequently, durability and other critical features such as a hood are sacrificed on the altar of ultra-light design, to the detriment of the final product. An ultralight jacket that doesn't keep you warm or that falls apart after limited use doesn't have a lot of value.
From our testing, we noticed that weight seems to be a product of three important factors: down fill-power, type or weight of the fabric, and amount and type of features. Using a higher fill-power down means that you get the same loft with less filling, so higher fill-power jackets tend to be lighter, and there is a little trade-off here except for added expense. Similarly, using a thinner fabric can make a jacket lighter, with the compromise, in this case, being durability. Lastly, to save weight, some models have far fewer features, such as chest pockets, zippers, or drawcords, while others use much lighter and smaller zippers to shave half an ounce here and there. The trade-off for using less or lighter features can again be durability in the case of super small gauge zippers or the lack of ability to fine-tune the fit if a jacket eschews the use of drawcords. We found the Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer 2 and even the incredible Feathered Friends jackets to be missing a hood adjustment; while this surely saves some weight, you lose the ability to block out the cold north wind.
The lightest jacket in this year's review was the Arc'teryx Cerium SL, which weighed a scant 8.4 ounces for a men's size large, over five ounces lighter than this year's Editors' Choice, TNF Summit L3. While most of the competition hovers around 13 ounces, the Cerium SL offers a significantly lighter alternative. Though featherweight, this jacket still manages to include key features like zippered handwarmer pockets and hem and hood cinches. The REI Co-op Down 650 is another exceptionally light at 11.5 ounces for a men's large but at the cost of warmth, as its 650 fill duck down insulation isn't as warm, and there isn't a whole lot of it in the jacket.
Down does not insulate when wet, and wearing a down jacket in a wet environment can be an uncomfortable or even dangerous mistake. Furthermore, if your jacket gets soaked, it will take a painfully long time to dry out and re-loft before it is useful again. You really need to get it into a low heat dryer asap. Fortunately, designers have several strategies for negating this vulnerability.
A few companies have down that has been directly treated with a DWR chemical. With names like Drydown and Downtec, companies claim that that special "hydrophobic" down has better water resistance and faster drying times. We had trouble evaluating these statements since we don't have access to the inside of these jackets, and even after soaking them in the shower, we found it difficult to isolate this variable for testing from other factors that add to each jacket's water resistance. So far, we don't think that hydrophobic down is anything miraculous, so hold onto your hardshells. Our scores mainly reflect the DWR treatment of the face fabric, but we added a point to jackets with hydrophobic down.
Our Top Pick and first choice for wet weather, the Rab Microlight Alpine, combines a water-resistant Pertex microlight shell fabric with an impressive DWR coating, Nikwax treated down, and a hood that keeps the rain out of your face. While it wasn't wholly water proof, this is the down jacket we would want to take to wet climates, with the caveat that we would still do all we could to keep it as dry as possible. This metric accounted for 15 percent of a product's final score; keep in mind that most folks aren't looking at down products for their water resistance properties, and we stress warmth as a top priority when selecting a puffy.
A durable water repellent (DWR) treatment is a chemical coating that causes water to bead up and roll off the face of the treated material. Out of the box, DWR treated models are very effective at keeping the down dry and lofty even in light rain. Unfortunately, these chemicals lose their effectiveness as the jacket becomes dirty. Everyday use exposes the shell fabric to dirt and oils from your body and from cooking, causing spots on the jacket to "wet out", especially on the back of the neck and shoulders. Regular cleaning can help prolong the DWR treatment. Take care of your jacket, and it will take care of you!
For this category, we selected jackets that can function as a midlayer or a terminal layer. They need to be roomy enough to accommodate a fleece layer underneath and form-fitting enough to fit underneath a waterproof shell layer. That limited our selection to lighter models, and we didn't review any full-on down parkas here.
For us, an ideally fitting jacket is one that mimics the shape of the body, so that it moves as we do, but is also large enough to wear a layer or two beneath. We try to avoid jackets that are overly baggy in the torso, as we find them to be annoying when we are wearing a pack or trying to look down at our feet when skiing, hiking, or climbing. There's also the fact that they have more dead space that needs to be warmed up using your body heat.
We're also very particular about the length of the sleeves, as well as the shape of the jacket through the shoulders and upper back and chest. Simply put, we want our jacket to be ready for any activity, and no matter what we are doing — ice climbing, backpacking, hiking, skiing, scrambling — we are likely to be moving our arms about and sometimes swinging them over our head. Some jackets have sleeves that are too short, causing them to ride up above our wrists when our arms are outstretched. Likewise, some of the jackets have constrictive fits around the shoulders, upper back, and chest that impede our freedom of movement, and affect the overall fit. Other areas that we paid attention to the fit were the collar, the hood, and the length of the hemline at our waist.
Our favorite down jacket, The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody, has the best fit. Long articulated sleeves with elastic cuffs ensured great coverage without restricting our range of motion. The hemline extends well below the waist, allowing it to fit well underneath a climbing harness or a backpack waist belt, while still allowing for access to the pockets. Keep in mind that you want to make sure any accompanying shell is long enough to cover this jacket. Finally, the hood is large enough to accommodate a helmet, and a cinch cord is included to keep the hood in place for noggins of all sizes.
Jackets with a baggie fit like the REI Co-op 650 lost points because they were less efficient insulators. The Feathered Friends Eos and the Arc'teryx Cerium LT fit well on most of our testers, offering unrestricted movement. Fit accounted for 15% of a product's final score.
Except in extremely cold conditions, strenuous activity will cause you to overheat in your down jacket. The jacket will likely spend a lot of time in your pack when you're climbing, mountaineering, ski touring or hiking, and come out during belays, ski transitions, or breaks. A compressible jacket means more space in your pack for toys and treats.
Down jackets are significantly more compressible than their synthetic counterparts, and packability is one of their main selling points. More importantly, down is much more resilient than synthetic insulation, which degrades and loses its re-lofting ability over time.
Not surprisingly, the Arc'teryx Cerium SL was the highest scorer when considering compressibility. It is the thinnest and lightest weight of the jackets we tested, and its high fill-power down means that it easily stuffs into its stuff sack, making a tiny little package that can be clipped and taken anywhere. A handful of other jackets, including the REI Co-op 650, also stuff down pretty small in their own pockets. Compressibility accounted for 10% of a product's final score.
All of the jackets in our review use high quality down that remains lofty (if taken care of) compression after compression. What sets them apart in the compressibility metric is how small and easily they pack away. Some models like The North Face Summit L3 Down Hoody stuffed down into an internal pocket, while others Like the Arc'teryx Cerium LT included a small stuff sack. The stowaway pocket has its advantages- you there's no sack to lose, and it cuts down on extra weight and material. Jackets with a stuff sack are generally easier to pack away than those with smaller stash pockets. The Arc'teryx Cerium LT and the Feathered Friends Eos are both very compressible thanks to their high fill power down, with the Cerium SL packing down smaller than most.
Features are our favorite place to nit-pick. Which pockets have the best placements? How many pockets do we even need? Which hood fits the best? Which jacket has our favorite zipper? We generally prefer a jacket with fewer features that work well than something loaded down with bells and whistles that contribute to weight and not much else.
As down jackets get lighter and lighter, we're seeing thinner fabrics come into play. While most employ a ripstop pattern to prevent holes and tears from spreading, a jacket made from 10D fabric (such as The North Face Summit L3 Hoody) isn't going to withstand abrasion from bushes and sharp rocks very well. We recommend carrying a roll of nylon repair tape with you on extended trips. This way, you'll be able to stop your jacket from leaking precious feathers from a tear or a burn as soon as it happens.
The Patagonia Down Sweater Hoody had features that we enjoyed. Our favorites were the hem drawcords that lived inside the hand pockets so they wouldn't dangle below our waist, a soft fleece-lined chin guard on the inside of the collar, and a perfectly fitting hood that can be tightened with a single drawcord, yet is still large enough to fit over a climbing helmet.
Elastic cuffs that are tight enough to keep out the drafts but stretchy so you can pull the sleeves up in a pinch are also a significant plus. Keep in mind that too many features can weigh you down; our favorite lightweight models like the Feathered Friends Eos and the Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer eschew drawstrings and superfluous pockets. Features accounted for 10% of a jacket's overall score.
We hope you have as much fun as we did with whatever model of down jacket you end up choosing. These jackets have a considerable "wow" factor, and we're consistently impressed with the design innovations that come with each new season. As down jackets keep getting lighter and warmer, we'll continue to stay on top of new developments and present our findings here.
— Adam Paashaus, Matt Bento, & Andy Wellman